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HELL, the Future Home of the Wicked?  

Dan Baxley

 

Update:  Since having written this article and looking into things a little deeper I felt it necessary to do an update in clarifying the understanding I now have concerning the "soul", and the "spirit" or "spirits" of men.  I must thank one of my readers for this new insight.  Also, because of being pushed by another I have expanded the understanding of the "parable" Lazarus and the Rich Man.  Thank you for sharpening me and helping me to a better understanding.  04-16-2011

Hell, Hell and Hell Fire

Why start with Hell as the first basic doctrine?  First, this is assuming the reader is a professing Christian, a follower of the Christ, a follower of Yahshua or, at least, a follower and believer of the Bible.  From this point it is also assumed that the doctrine of the Christ (Messiah) does not need to be taught – you have either accepted the Christ (Messiah) of the Holy Bible or you have not.  Okay, maybe you are still on the fence but searching -- then it is you I’m writing to.  Hell is a definite place, but wait, let’s not get ahead of ourselves.  Keep reading, talk back if you want, but please continue.  For some, a few, this may be old stuff and this will be a nice refresher, but for others this may be a whole new experience from what your church, your local minister has been teaching you and your children.

The first thing we need to look at concerning “hell” is to answer the question, is it a real place? And the answer is, yes it is --  It is three places, actually.  That’s right, three separate places.  When the Messiah or one of the Apostles made mention of this place called “hell” they had a definite image in mind and they did not have to explain which image to their listeners.  The concept of a Hell-Fire where all the fun people are sent to live is not a concept of your Bible.  Yes, there is a place where the souls of those dead go.  The Saints to one place and others to another.  Hey, wait a minute, you might shout, I thought you just said there ain't no place like Hell.  I know, this can be a confusing issue but once you grasp the concept of the word "hell", as used in scripture, has three very different meanings you will see what is meant.

The word we use for “hell” is actually three separate words in the Greek, each having a specific meaning so the audience knew which of the three “hells” was being referred to, this was for the Greek speaking audience, the Jews speaking Aramaic had no such problems as they taught that you died and went to the grave (one of the Hells) to await the resurrection.  Some, however did not believe in a resurrection, however and that the grave was the last resting place .  The Old English translators, being very knowledgeable in Greek, however, for some reason, missed this and failed in presenting to the readers the correct image, or mind pictures of which “hell” the Messiah spoke and later Greek writers tried to pass on to the understanding of the Greek mind.  My guess is, and it is only a guess, as I have no idea what the translators, commissioned by King James, used for their reason in using a single English word, hell, for all three different meanings from the Greek?  My guess is this:  The Christian leadership and scholars of the day had already accepted a false doctrine concerning this “fiery” place -- the Hell Fire of pagan theology.  Some may have even reasoned that to teach the “hell fire” of the damned would be a good thing in order to keep the “commoners” under the influence of the Bible -- scare them to Christ.  The end justifies the means, so to speak.  Let the masses believe the lie in order to keep them focused on the God of the Bible, and, of course, keep us in authority.

First Hell (geenna or gehenna)

Our first “hell” is “hell fire”, why, because that is the first one spoken of by our Savior, besides, it is the one everyone fears.  Actually, looking at the majority of Evangelical Christians it doesn’t really seem that they fear this as much as their ancestors did, the idea of going to the “hell fire”, living forever in torment, with demons torturing you day and night does not really compute in modern thinking.  Let’s take a closer look at this “hell fire”, this place where you live forever in burning flames -- or do you?.

In the Greek, from the text most scholars recognize as the authorized language, from which the New Testament writings are derived, we see that this “hell fire” mentioned first in Matthew 5:22, “…and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire”.  Pretty strong words for calling someone a “fool”, seems to me.  Seems to me this “hell fire” should be reserved for the likes of a Hitler or a Charles Manson, not for merely calling someone a "fool", never the less this is what our Savior warned.  The Greek here is “geenna”, found in the Strong’s Concordance #1067.  It is most definitely a place – the valley of Hinnom, to be specific, located right along side of Jerusalem.  This valley had been used as the city garbage dump.  Most cities today have such a place located somewhere close by that the garbage collected from the local residence is taken and dumped – that would be your local geenna, or hell.  I remember when the local dump, or geenna, always had smoke rising from the piles and piles of garbage.  It was the practice, in those day, to burn the refuse, the garbage of waste -- it was the geenna fire out side the city.  YaHshua used this imagery to make his point and from this point no one thought He was talking about living in the city bump but rather being burned up, like so much trash.

See how the picture changes?  Continuing on let’s see what else the Messiah had to say about this “Hell fire”.  In Matthew 5:29 we read, “And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell”.  (Notice the word, perish)This is the same hell mentioned previously, remember, the garbage dump outside the city.  The Messiah is suggesting that if a member is doing damage to the body it should be cut off, or cut out and thrown into “hell fire”, where it will be consumed.  this lesson from our Savior is not about you poking your eye out for looking but about the body of believers removing offending memebers.  Althouh, in the physical realm we do see this practice of cutting cancerous limbs from our bodies, by surgeons, of course, and no one suggests these cancerous limbs or tumors go on living somewhere else, do they? I know there is a lot that can be said about this but for know let’s stay on the path of determining, rather, defining just what the “basic doctrine” of hell should be. 

Would anyone think that if you were to cut off your hand, or to pluck you eye out and throw it into the “hell fire”, that “geenna”, and your hand or eye would then be tormented day and night by the demons of Satan?  Of course not.  To be thrown into the “geenna fire” is to be destroyed permanently -- to be consumed by the fire of the garbage pit.  Those listening to the Messiah knew exactly where and what He was talking about.  The simple logic here explains itself.  In verse 29 and 30, please take notice of the word “perish” and realize this means to be consumed fully – it in no way suggest a continuing life in pain and torment.  You see, my friends, this is the original lie from the beginning, “… you shall not die” (Genesis 3:4), and this lie is still being spread.  No, when the Messiah said “perish” he meant just that. 

Perish: Strong’s #622 “…to destroy fully”.  And the Messiah used this word, to “fully destroy” not once but twice.

There it is, the “hell fire” doctrine.  It is not a doctrine of life after death in an eternal torment, but it is a doctrine of absolute destruction.  The destruction of the things disposed of in the garbage dump of “geenna”.  Still not enough?  Still not convinced?  I know, I know, what about the “lake of fire”, and what about the rich man calling up to the poor man from the pits of hell.  We will be covering those in a little bit but first we need to understand the meaning of what is actually said and to understand the concept of what heaven and hell meant in the first century.  Do you think this does not apply to you, that “hell fire” is for those sinners outside of the body of the Christ?  You had better think again.  Read verse 22 again, “…anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell”  (NIV).  Which of us has never, ever, done this?  How many times have you heard yourself say, “Look at that idiot”, or remark, “Now that person is an idiot” or “What a fool he is”?  Please, He said, "...in danger of...", not that because you make such a remark you are going there, it is a warning to watch what you say, or do, next.  You get the point, I'm sure.  But wait, there is more in clarifying the “fires of hell” in you Bible.

Matthew 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. KJV

Again we see the suggestion that the “hell” spoken of as destruction not a continuing of life in torment.  See the word “destroy”?  This is the same exact word as “perish” found in the Strong’s Greek Dictionary, #622.  A second witness to this definition is found in, “Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of the Old and New Testaments”, pages 467-468, under Perish,  “…utterly perishing”.  It has a much longer definition and coverage of this term but the short of it is to “utterly perish, to be completely destroyed”. 

What is unique about the above verse, a direct quote of the Messiah, is the addition of another element possibly headed for this “hell fire” of total destruction and that is the mention of the ‘soul” apart from the “body”.  What we are being told is that not only will this destroying fire of “geenna” consume the body but it is also capable of the destruction of your very “soul”, your spirit.  In this ‘geenna” even your life force, apart from you physical body, can be destroyed.  Is it the “hell fire” that does this?  No, it is the One that can use it for that purpose.  You see, Satan has the power to destroy us physically and he has over the past centuries been the iunspiration for the murder of millions upon millions.  Satan has made it his goal to destroy as many of God’s people as possible but he does not have the power to take your spirit, your very soul – only our Creator God has that power.  With this truth we should not fear what Satan can do to us, or what men can do, by comparison, but we should have a healthy fear of Him that has the power to destroy us totally, both body and spirit, by the “fire of geenna”.

Other verses that use this “geenna” hell” – Mathew 23:15; 23:33; James 3:6

There is a "fire", an eternal fire,  prepared for the Devil and his angels, please read:

"The He will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41 NIV

It should be plain that the "genna fire" and this "fire prepared for the devil and his angels" is one and the same.  We have seen this "fire" as all consuming, a fire leading to total destruction, not another type of "eternal life".  Is the devil and his angels destroyed in this fire? Possibly, one thing is sure, this fire is able to consume both body (flesh) and soul (spirit), remember Matthew 10:28.  From this verse it is apparent that while Satan can destroy the body he has no power to destroy the soul (Spirit), but our Creator can.  Understanding the scripture in this way it may be our Heavenly Father will destroy Satan and his angels of rebellion.  But, I'm wondering, in the light of this false teaching, about men going to "hell" and continuing to live, if that is not really the punishment of Satan and his angels -- it's just a thought and it would explain thje reason for calling this fire an "eternal fire".  What a trick in doctrine, imagine, Satan preaching to mankind a punishment reserved for him and his angel (demons) is the punishment for flesh and blood men and women -- "Really, you will not die, you will live forever, either here or there -- you wil continue", he might say, and has said.  This is a concept we see taught worldwide, the "Circle of Life", some call it.  We continue on and on and on and on and on, but this is not what you Bible teaches, this is not what our Lord tells us. 

Second Hell (Hades)

We have covered the first “hell” but there are more.  Our next use of the English word “hell” is found in Matthew 11:23, “…And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell:”  This "hell" is the Greek "hades" and means the grave, where all eventually go.  Even our Messiah went to the grave, or "hades", for three days and three night.

In the verse above the Messiah has pronounced the demise of the city of Capernaum.  This first century city  was considered very modern and up to date, a beautiful city, a high minded city.  They, like other cities near by, were able to explained away the miracles the Messiah had preformed in their midst.  The context is that they saw no reason to repent, life was good, they had the feeling of immortality and lived in a city that appeared to have an eternal life of its own.  Our Messiah, Yahshua, however, told them what He thought of their haughty attitude.  If anyone had received signs and wonders it was those at Capernaum. 

 The “hell” spoken of here is the “grave” – that place they put you when your physical body dies.  Again turning to the Strong’s Dictionary for this “hell”, or “Hades” #86 “…place of departed souls”.  You will notice there is no mention of destruction but of being brought down.  In the context, expressed for this “hell”, makes reference of the Judgment.   From this we can see that while being brought down to the grave (hades) does not mean total destruction as does the “genna” hell.  We are all going to be brought down to the grave, rich or poor all are the same in “hades” -- the “grave” where our souls reside awaiting the judgment day.  In this condition the body, the flesh corrupts in its natural process degenerating back into dirt.  The spirit returns to our Creator and what He does with it after that we are only given hints.  In the geenna hell the spirit is destroyed but in the hades hell the flesh is destroyed but the spirit leaves and returns to the one that gave it. 

(Ecc 12:7) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

     We see spirits from Noah's day, those having perished in the worldwide flood, are held in a prision of some kind.  It is to this prison our Savior, YaHshua, went and preached in the power of the Spirit that brought Him back to life.  there is a concern for the spirits in prison, why else would YaHshua have bothered to "preach" to them, and this then, also, indicates these spirits have some kind of senses, alertness.  Reding the context of the whole account given by Peter you see that these spirits are not fallen angels, as some suppose.

(1Pe 3:19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

We see the spirits of the saints held in a place "under the Altar" and you will notice, they are not "on" the Alter but "under" it, as if hidden, preserved in a place of safety.  By this we see our Heavenly Father cares for the spirits of all men, especially those of the saints. 

(Rev 6:9) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

These "souls" may not be the same as those seen later standing before the thrown, then again maybe they are, but at a later date, released from their position under the Alter, the Resurrected believers? 

(Rev 7:9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

To get the right picture we need to put this in context and we will see this vision is not taking place in Heaven but on earth, in the Kingdom of YaHshua established after His return.

(Rev 7:14-17) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among themThey shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

None of this helps explain the "hades hell" but is of interest when considering the concept of Heaven.  It would seem that no flesh is in Heaven and not all spirits are either, some are held in a prison.  At the end of the thousand year rule of YaHshua on earth we are told the sea gives up the dead.  Considering  those souls that died in the great flood it would not be impossible to think the prision might be the seas of the earth.

(Rev 20:13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

This verse really says it -- the sea gives up its dead and then hell (Hades, the grave) gives up its dead, and "death" too, gives up its dead.  This covers everyone that has ever died and gone to hades hell, or the grave and this is not a place of living in a hell-fire.

The warning to Capernaum was to wake them up to the fact they were not "immortal" and no matter how wonderful life was for them at that time in their history, they were all going to the grave -- and they did -- the City of Capernaum and all of its inhabitants of living during Yahshua's flesh and blood days are in the grave, "shalt be brought down to hell" (hades, the grave).  Read the context concerning Capernaum and you will see the "day of judgment" is mentioned as a future event.   

Okay, we should begin to see why the basic doctrine "Hell” needs to be understood.  Getting rid of preconceived notions planted in your mind by the false teachers and the misguided teachers of this world is not easy but is necessary.  A "generation" is being prepared to face up to the Babylonian system of this world.  When the final generation of our Savior's Earthly body is stamped and ready to stand before the "false Preacher" and the Beast ruler refusing the "Mark", refusing the "false worship" and holding fast to the "testimony of YaHshua", not some "other Gospel", not some other "messiah" they will know the basic doctrines of that "TESTIMONY".  Only through YaHshua will anyone come back to life, their spirit being restored in a new body, a body like that of YaHshua, incorruptible, forever.

(1Co 15:53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

(1Jn 3:2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.

 Mathew 16:18  “I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”  Again this English word “hell” is really not understood properly without the true Greek definition.  What the Messiah is telling Peter is that the grave (hades hell), unlike the city of Capernaum, will not be its end.  The church, the very body of the Messiah, the body of true believers of the Christ will be alive forever.  The individual parts may suffer a physical death and go to the grave but the body of the Christ, the total number, as a "holy city" will be retrieved from this "hades" (hell, grave), its gates shall not prevail against those asleep and waiting YaHshua's return to break them out into eternal life. This is also a guarantee that Satan will not be able to destroy the physical presence of the Church on Earth -- even if it were possible, and it is not, all chosen, all called, all given to the Messiah would still be raised back to life -- that is the promise. 

Hell Number Three  (Tartaros)

This "hell" is an "abyss", where rebel angels are held awaiting the "day of judgment".  From Strong's #5020, Tartroo: abyss.  

2 Peter 2:4  "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell (tartroo) KJV

2 Peter 2:4 "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment"  NIV

Many bible dictionaries don't even bother to mention this "hell".  It is a place of darkness.  A place of imprisonment while awaiting the "judgment".  What is going to happen when the "judgment" is finished?

Rev 20:14-15 "And death and hell (hades - the grave) were cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna). This is the second death.  And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna)." MKJV

You will notice that the "grave" (Hades - hell) are cast into the "Lake of Fire", a "geenna fire" that puts an end to things.  Death is consumed and the grave is consumed never to be again, just as those not found in the "Book of Life" -- burned up, gone, this is Gehenna Hell.  This is following the judgment during the time of the judgment names are removed.  You want your name to stay in this book and not to be "blotted", "erased"or "removed" from this book (Revelation 3:5).  The angels spoken of by Peter are living in a hell, in gloomy dungeons of the abyss.

Summation:

Hell #1 - Gehenna - 1067 -- An all consuming fire.  Things "perish" that are thrown into it -- total destruction. (other spelling: geenna).  This is where "death and the grave" will be cast and come to an end.

Hell #2 - Hades - 086 -- The grave, the same as mentioned in the Old Testament #7485 -Sheol -- grave, or pit. (other spelling: hadou).  This all flesh share in, the grave.

Hell #3 - Tartaros - 5020 -- From the Complete Word Study Dictionary: "The subterranean abyss of Greek mythology where demigods were punished."  Also, "These angels are being held in the netherworld dungeon until the day of final judgment."  (other spellings: tartaro, tartaroso) (angels as "demigods")

Tartaros, is mentioned only once and it is a deliberate use by Peter.  He confirms the existence of a Greek myth concerning a prison where rebel beings are held.  This reference in no way mentions or is associated with flesh and blood men, as Peter uses this term, it is a place for the angels that sinned, angels setting themseloves up a little "demigods", along with Satan, in their attempts to be gods themselves and replace their creator.  Make no mistake, Peter is plain on this pointm he is spaeking of "angels" not men and not fleshly men seeking to be gods.  It is a dungeon of the abyss where the rebel spirits are held.

Why is this Important?

The Christian Doctrine of "HELL" into which evil men are tossed is a threat mechanism.  This type of doctrine is based on fear and the Christian Church has used this place, this prison of evil spirits (angels) to scare people into obedience.  Obedience to themselves and their authority.  Even when the religious leaders of the day knew better they continued to threaten the followers with an eternity in "hell fire" for not obeying their commands.  Many in the Christian Church still cling to this false doctrine of fear.  It is still used by many as a fear tactic to frighten people into submission.  The punishment of a spiritual prison of darkness is in place for the rebelious spirits, not for humans.  A false doctrine of Satan is to teach men that they "surely shall not die" but live on either in Heaven or Hell.  this lie is based on pagan idealology not the Teachings of the Bible.  The translators mistakenly translated the three "hells" with a single word confusing the understadning even further.  Itis up to the spirit guided believer to seperate the truth.

Know the Word and what it really says and protect yourself from such misguided teachings.  Our Heavenly Father is not a God of fear but of Love.  In the pure Love of our Father and His Son, our Savior, there is no fear -- certainly respect but not fear, as the world counts fear -- we need not fear death.  Satan would like nothing better than to have you quaking in you shoes, afraid of your own shadow constantly anxious about which side of "hell" you stand on.  We see this same kind of fear used by the "Escape" preachers in teaching the "Imminent" return doctrine known to many as the Rapture.   Preachers of this false doctrine have bragged about how many people this doctrine has saved out of the "fear" that the Lord may come at any moment.  It is a fear base doctrine.

1 John 4:18  "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."  KJV

That is a good verse to end with.  A lot more could be done on this subject of hell, but then I would be doing all the work.  It is your responsibility to study, to find approval with our Father in Heaven.  Every time you sit at your study area and read and examine His words He is with you.  Pray for wisdom and for understanding -- He wants you to have both, just ask.

Lazarus and the Rich Man (update)

 Some have wondered about the story of Lazaras and the Rich man (Luke 16:20) as this tale seems to suggest a Heavenly place and a fiery hell for those living in torment, such as the Rich Man.  First it is a story, a tale for the purpose making a point, an allegory, a teaching method not unlike what is still used used today.  All of the parables told by YaHshua were understood to be stories (parables revealing "hidden" things Mat 13:34-36) for the purpose of education, not doctrine -- the education of His disciples. 

We need to understand the context of this allegorical story -- He, YaHshua, was speaking the general public, whom the Pharisees look down their noses at.  We read in Luke 15:1 the Pharisees were grumbling and ridiculing this teacher, thei Rabbi YaHshua and so we read in verse three YaHshua begins to tell an allegorical story aimed at these professed leaders of the people -- a parable of the lost sheep.  YaHshua continues with stories told for the puirpose of teaching higher moral principles, principles the religous leaders of that day were loath to acknowledge, so we come to Luke 16:14 and again the Pharisees began "sneering at YaHshua" and this is when YaHshua addressed them straight out concerning how they justify themselves but God the Father knows their hearts.  Then YaHshua goes on with things concerning the Law and about divorce and adultry (read Matthew 19:9 for the only ligitimate reason for divorce -- marital unfaithfulness).  Then, as if an after thougth, YaHshua delivers the parable (allegory) about Lazarus and the Rich man. 

Let's have a look at this lesson as a doctrine, forgetting for the moment what is the lesson being taught.  First, as a doctrine:  Lazaraus is seen to be in the busom of Abraham and the Rich Man is in hell.  The word for "hell", in this case,  is "hades" (Hell #2), which is to say, "the grave".  The Rich man seems to be in a fiery place, while Lazarus is in the comfort of Abraham, which is strange in itself -- if YaHshua meant this to be a real place He would have used "Hell #3, Tartos.  As a doctrine there is a real problem here, you see, Lazarus is not said to be in Heaven as the Christians teach but with Abraham.  From this, as a doctrine, one would have to say this applies to the Israelites -- the poor Israelites -- not the Christians.  Still, we are told in Galatians 3:29 that if we belong to the Messiah we are counted among the seed of Abraham.  So, where is Abraham, some say heaven but it does not say this.  Let's go a little further and see if we can find where Abraham is.

   Please note, the "hell" YaHshua used here is of the grave (hades) and not of the "fiery hell" (Gehenna) and it is this Gehenna (or, Hell Fire) into which we see the Beast and the False prophet thrown and later all those not found in the book of Life.  Again, the order of things, first the Beast and false Prophet are tossed into it (Rev 19:20) and later Satan is cast in after the 1000 years is finished.  Satan is not overseeing a Hell Fire of the dead, as some teach, he is not there yet (Rev 20:10) then after that we see the Judgment takes place, we then see the wicked thrown into Hell Fire and along with them is tossed "death" and "hell" (hades, the grave)(Rev 20:11-15). 

    In this tale, YaHshua tell, however, we see the Rich Man already in this "fiery hell", but wait, in Luke 16:22-23 we see the beggar dies and is take by angels into the "bosom" of Abraham and then the Rich Man dies and is buried and from here we see the Rich Man crying out from "hell".  The problem here is the term used for "hell" is hades, which means "grave", not a fiery hell.  We have already seen where the '"fiery hell" is and it is not until later.  Satan is not ruling over a fiery hell in the depths of the earth, but this parable (?) seems to say there is a lower region of fire and torment not unlike what some of the Greek, Canaanite, and Babylonian myths suggest.  This makes this Parable supicious. 

   We have already seen a contradiction in the use of words and the seeming timing of this event -- Hell fire is prepared, the Beast and False Prophet are thrown in, then a 1000 years later, Satan is tossed in then the judgment and everyone not found in the Book of Life, even death and Hell, and the grave, are thrown in. The grave, or hades, is not "hell fire", and we have seen the Rich Man buried in hell, or hades, which means the grave.  How is it then we see this story with the Rich Man in Hell Fire?  It is appoint to all men to die, once, and all in the past have died and gone to "hell", or the grave. 

I asm of the opinion, and this is only an opinion, that this tale, unlike the other parables, is being told the the Pharisees using a teaching of their own.  The Pharisees I believe taught this concept of a fiery hell and YaHshua used their own flawed teaching on them.  The last verse in this rebuke of the Pharisees tells it all.  Abraham is conversing with the Rich Man (the beggar is mute) and in the end tells the rich man it is usless to send a warning of his end to his family for the simple reason it they would not listen to Mose and the Prophets (Scripture) then neither would they believe someone risen from the dead.  YaHshua was true in all of this, He rose from the dead, and they, the descendants of the Rich Man believed it not.  This is what seem reasonable to me in light of other scirpture that contradict this as a teaching to be taken seriously for a Greek style and Jewish concept of the Nether world. 

   The story of the Rich Man has some serious flaws and it is even argued by some that this is not really a "parable" at all.  All of the parables were spoken by YaHshua and later explained to His disciples (again, Mat 13:34-36) but not in this case.   If we understand the tale as a teaching doctrine then it has to apply to a future date, not yet seeing its fulfillment for antother 2000 yers, or more, by the mere fact that the "fiery hell" of scripture is not until the Beast and False Prophet as Revelation reveals.  Please be awar, the book of Revelation is from YaHshua, not John.  Actually, it is from our Heavenly Father, given to YaHshu, whom then gives it to John to record and much of that is delivered by and Angel representing the glorified YaHshua.

 

(Mat 8:11) And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

The verse above is in a future tense, obviously, and if this is so it would stand against the idea of Lazarus being with Abraham in heaven at the time of the parable teaching

 Webster's Dictionary -- Parable: EXAMPLE;  specifically   : a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle

(Mar 12:26) And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 

(Mat 22:31-32)But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

What are these verses telling us?  The resurrection of the dead includes Abraham and this is where the poor Lazarus (if a real person) will be and that is in the future.  The "doctrine of the resurrection", a doctrine our savior taught, should put the "parable of Lazarus in the right light if to be taken as a true story as opposed to a "parable".  The resurrection of the dead is not a resurrection of the living living beneath the earth.

(Luk 13:28) There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

In John 8:52-58 you will read of a confrontation Yahshua had with the Pharisees and how Abraham and the Prophets are all dead -- no mention, or correction from our Savior, about them being alive in Heaven.  the idea of them being dead and in the grave is assumed and not challenged.

(Act 2:29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

(Act 2:34) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

(Act 13:36) For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Again this is a teaching concerning the resurrection and it is made plain David is dead and buried, awaiting the resurrection.  What are we to assume, that the poor beggar, Lazarus, went to heaven and David, much loved of God, and from whom the seed of Righteousness would come (Roman 1:3), did not?  From this we can assume Abraham too is in the grave and the "parable" is just that, a parable, a lesson story, not a fact to be taken literally.

In John 11:43, Lazarus, a friend of YaHshua, had died and was in a grave.  After three days YaHshua went and had the stone covering removed and called out for Lazarus to come out, and he did.  Notice, YaHshua did not call to Lazarus to come out of Heaven nor out of a nether world beaneth His feet but into the crypt He called to Lazarus.  This took place before YaHshua's confrontation with the Pharisees about the Laws, Moses and the Prophets ending with the story of Lazarus and the rich man.  I am thinking the use of the name Lazarus, in the story, was on purpose.  When the religious authorities of that day heard what had happened concerning the real Lazarus they could not take it anymore and from then on tried to figure a way to kill YaHshua -- John 11:53 -- it seems the raising of Lazarus from the dead was the last straw.

(Heb 11:39-40) And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. 

Reading all of Hebrew 11 you will see those "having obtained a good report through faith" include all the "faithful" seen to be in the Kingdom of God -- Abraham is there in this group but is not there yet, not before the Followers of YaHshua  -- our perfection as well are theirs is still future.  On those made perfect will be allowed into the Kingdom.  This would mean the story of Lazarus and the rich man is just that, a story, a tale to illustrate a point.

Again, if the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man are to be taken literally as a teaching of Heaven and Hell, as the pagans view it, then we must see the bosom of Abraham, where the angels took the beggar as also close by beiong separtated by a "gulf" and this is pointed out to the Rich Man who then request Lazarus be sent to his family which would indicate Lazarus, in the bosom of Abraham is earth side -- on the same side as the Rich Man's house as the RM then requests Lazarus be sent to his home to warn his five brothers.  The only objection to this, however, is that they would not listen even if someone were raised from the dead.  This would put the bosom of Abraham on earth, wouldn't it?  Also, one final thought on this as teaching a Heaven Hell doctrine, Abraham is having a conversation with the RM and if this is supposed to really be the actual Abraham, alive, he must have a very large bosom to be collecting all of the beggars.  Also, as a tale of Heaven and Hell and as a doctrine of the Church this would mean, literally, that all the rich are going to a fiery hell while the beggars and the homeless are going to heaven -- look at Luke 16:25, it plainly says -- the well to do go to Hell, be a beggar and go to Heaven.  I am still of the opinion this was a teaching of the Pharisees that YaHshua turned around on them -- that's my opinion, until some further light can be thrown on this.  One thing is sure, the teaching of the pagan "heaven hell' doctrine is at odds with the rest of scripture.  Remember, the New Testament gospels record how YaHshua kept putting the Pharisees and their false ideas on display revealing them for what they had become, He constantly quoted what they taught and thought and turned it on them, and, as I have said before, I think that is what is going on here.

When in Doubt

I do not pretend to have all of the answers and will not pretend to completely understand the tale in the form of a "docrine" but I think I do understand the message, the teaching.  Ignore the Heaven and Hell for a moment and read it for the message.  It is a message for all of us, not just the rich.  I still like the idea of this tale from YaHshua, addressed specificlly toward the Pharisees as an opportunity he may have taken to turn their own tale back on them.  This is the kind of tale that would be told by religious leaders to encourage the rich to give to the poor, and in Jerusalem, during those time, the way you did that was to drop money into the Temple coffers.  I am speculating, of course but it does explain the seemingly contradictory view of Heaven and Hell, and when you have our Savior telling us --

John 3:13 -No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. NIV

Not even David -- Acts 2:34-36

John 6:38 -For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Only YaHshua among men has come from Heaven and returned -- John 16:28

 

email:  servant@yahshuaservant.com 

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